MAJOR! Day 7 of the Whitmer Fednapping Plot: Judge Appears to Put Finger on Scale to Help Government!

The defense now has only 25 minutes on cross for the two men who took plea deals, after judge accused them of wasting time but the judge put no limits on the prosecution.

GRAND RAPIDS, Michigan -- August 17, 2022 -- In Day 7 of the retrial in the USA vs. Fox, et al, aka the retrial in the Whitmer Fednapping Plot the Judge Robert Jonker has set hard limits on the defense, curtailing them to 25-minute limits on cross examination. The judge accused the defense of “wasting time,” but the defense says they are on a reasonable track to finish on time.

Christopher Gibbons and Joshua Blanchard, the defense lawyers, have objected to this limit due to the serious nature of the case, the fact that their defendants are facing life in prison, and that the judge has excluded so much exculpatory evidence in this case. The judge has imposed NO LIMITS on the governments case. The judge has interjected in defense but not the prosecution. Jurors look to the court for direction and judgment, and this judge has referred to one of the arguments the defense made as “crap.”

This is MAJOR because it opens the door to appeal in my opinion. The judge made this imposition before the two men that took plea deals testified. It could have the appearance of interfering to help the government. He cited Reeves (case law) but that case was wildly different.

Moving onto what we learned today. The day began with Ty Garbin who was the first to take a plea deal under cross examination by attorney for Adam Fox, Chris Gibbons.

Gibbons gets Garbin to admit that he basically has to cooperate with the government narrative of the case in order to get a substantial reduction on his sentence. He has yet to be sentenced and the government has agreed not to charge him for other things he did in exchange for his cooperation.

When asked about the meeting with Undercover FBI Agent Red, Informants Big Dan and Robeson, where they discussed explosives, Garbin confirms no one handed over any money that day nor was there any agreement to do so.

Joshua Blanchard, the lawyer for Barry Croft, Jr. then cross examines Garbin.

He asks Garbin if he is scared to go to prison labeled as a snitch. He gets into the details of the plea agreement and how it relies on his doing what the government wants.

Blanchard was able to expose some inconsistencies in Garbin’s testimony and asked if he prepared with FBI agents and the government for this case. He said he did and was told what sorts of questions might be asked, how to answer them, and how to deal with defense attorneys.

Garbin admits that Barry Croft wasn’t in any of the encrypted group chats. There were meetings that he didn’t attend and Garbin only met him a few times. Garbin claimed he went on a hike with Kaleb Franks and Daniel Harris where he decided to commit to the so-called conspiracy. He admits Croft and Fox were not there.

Blanchard asks about the training regarding the shoot house and the tactical retreat. He says “these were defensive training exercises, weren’t they?”

Garbin claims in the event they were “overrun.”

Blanchard gets Garbin to agree all these training exercises were being filmed by a camera man. The government has made a big thing out of the guys talking about “OPSEC,” which they apparently never employed.

The next witness was FBI Special Agent Katherine Martinez. She conducted the search of Barry Croft’s tractor trailer. She admits they didn’t need to get a warrant, because Barry had given permission for them to conduct the search. Talks about how they found camping gear and marijuana. A gun and a knife. Admits besides the pot, everything he had was legal.

Next witness is FBI Special Agent Brian Clark. Clark was present at the Vac Shack on October 7, 2020 after Adam Fox was arrested to execute a search warrant. He discusses the gear they found and a business card that claimed Fox was head of a fake militia group created by the FBI.

Final witness of the day is Kaleb Franks who took a government plea deal one month before the first trial.

Franks was caught using illegal substances in prison which is another felony charge he is facing. There is currently an investigation into that. Presumably he didn’t take the plea deal until that event occurred.

On cross examination substantial inconsistencies were brought to light. Franks repeatedly contradicts statements he made when he was arrested and when he testified the first time back in March of this year.

He has the same motivations as Ty Garbin with regard to providing substantial cooperation for the government in exchange for reduced time and not being charged with the WMD charges, the ghost gun scheme and the drug issues in prison.

His story about getting involved in the alleged plot because he was hoping he died doesn’t make sense. He could have simply killed himself. He had pistols. He also was talking about where to live AFTER the alleged kidnapping was carried in during discussions. Despite claiming he wanted to die in the process.

Exclusive Trial Notes

Here are my full 30 pages of notes so you can read it yourself and come to your own conclusions about the case!:

Day begins with Ty Garbin (who took a plea) on stand w Chris Gibbons on cross:

On Cross, Gibbons asks about the meeting with Fox and Croft where UCE Red, FBI Informants Robeson, and Chappel are present. This is supposed to be the meeting where money was discussed for explosives.

Gibbons: You would agree no one turned any money over to UCE Red that day?

Ty Garbin: true. that's true.

Gibbons: You testified that Adam and Barry were or had agreed to put up most of the money. Is that right?

Ty Garbin: That's right.

Gibbons: And at this meeting, Steve Robeson was there, right? Dan Chappel was there when this was said, right? And UCE Red was there when this was said. This is a small group meeting, correct?

Ty Garbin: correct.

Gibbons: you went on the road trip. You were invited by Dan Chappel. The trip to get arrested. You would agree you had exactly zero dollars in your wallet? You had no intention of paying UCE Red any money?

Ty Garbin: correct.

Gibbons: No one tried to sell you a fake bomb in Ypsilanti. They were taken to the back of the truck when you arrived you got out, you guys went to the back of the truck is that right?

Ty Garbin: That's right.

Gibbons moves on to discuss the nature of the charges against Ty Garbin and his plea deal.

Terrorism enhancement – penalty that is applied after conviction, raises sentence. You wanted to avoid that, true?

Garbin: correct

Gibbons: You could face 30 years in prison

AUSA Objects

Judge says lay fdtn

Gibbons: if you plead guilty to count one the government said you would get a waiver on anything that happened in the summer

Garbin: yes

Gibbons: As part of your plea you are expecting a reduced sentence. The government has already filed a motion for a reduced sentence. You are hoping the government will file a Rule 35 motion for substantial assistance.

Garbin: yes

Gibbons: but no one has promised you that

Garbin: right

Gibbons: Was adam fox your leader?

Garbin: I wouldn’t say he was my leader but he was the leader of the plot

Garbin: Mid august is when he became committed to it (the plot)

Gibbons: was it on the hike you went on w Kaleb Franks and Daniel Harris?

Garbin: I don’t remember

Gibbons: This is your rifle? It had a lower receiver on it? This has a prohibited part on it

Garbin: yes

*inaudible*

“when did you make the suppressors you had in your possession?”

Judge asks about relevance. Gibbons says he is finished.

Joshua Blanchard on cross now:

“You’ve prepared for today by mtg w agents from the FBI?

Ty: yes

“you’ve prepared by mtg w lawyers for the government on multiple occasions, told the kinds of questions you would be asked and how to answer and deal with defense attorneys?

Ty: yes

“You’re going to prison and scared of that”

Ty: I wouldn’t say im scared

“you’re going to prison labeled as a snitch”

AUSA objects

“Are you aware when you get to prison they will want to know if you cooperated”

Ty: yes

he says he looked into percent of people that have cooperated so he’s not that concerned.

“you want to spend the least amount of time in prison possible?

Ty: yes

“you’ve met with the government as part of your plea deal and talked about a reduced sentence”

Ty: yes

“they agreed they wouldn’t hit you w the WMD charge, 2 other charges and they wouldn’t use what you said against you at your sentencing”

Ty: correct

“you testified in front of a grand jury, then a second time to a grand jury, then you came here in march you testified and now you are back here. You said last time you were hoping to get a Rule 35 motion and hoping to get extra benefits because you had to come here twice.”

Ty: yes

“You understand the kidnapping charge with terrorism enhancement could get you life in prison.”

“You understood if you get a life sentence by this judge you would die in a cage”

Ty: yes

“yesterday when the government was asking you questions they asked you who you conspired with”

Ty: yes

“you said you conspired with Franks, Croft, Fox”

Ty: yes

“you didn’t mention Caserta or harris”

Ty: they weren’t in the room

Fox had his own group, right

Ty: I think so

There was a training in Munith hosted by Joe Morrison

Ty: yes

Sean Fix was present at that, his girlfriend was there, fox and his girl was there, WW had about 12-15 people there, Croft wasn’t there right?

Ty: right

Mr. Kessler showed you some guns and asked if other members had similar equipment

Ty: yes

“you testified about night vision, you had that and franks but you have no knowledge Croft had that”

Ty: right

Lots of people went and shot at the range at the event, and AR-15s, you’re not suggesting everyone who had a gun was plotting a kidnapping right?

Ty: no

“you never taught Croft any weapons skills true?”

Ty: true

Kessler asked you about entrapment and things you did and didn’t see informants do.

I don’t remember him asking you about Ms. Plunk

Did he ask you about her?

Ty: no

“were you aware in Cambria Ms. Plunk slept in the same hotel in the bed with you, right?

AUSA objects

“you never had a female informant sleep in your bed”

Ty: no

“for the Cambria event, you had an invitation by Robeson, right?

Ty: Robeson invited but Fox told him to

“you testified in March in this courtroom, correct?”

Ty: that’s correct.

March 24 transcript - Page 95

Back in March you were asked who invited you to cambria and your answer was Steve Robeson, true?

Ty: true.

“you believed it was going to be a family friendly event”

Ty: yes

“you said Croft brought explosives in a red duffle”

Ty: yes

“This the red duffle you speak of?

Ty: looks to be the same

“this is what you saw him bring to cambria?

Ty: looks to be the same

“this is the ones that didn’t go off”

Ty: yes

Picture being shown of folks at Cambria

“you see funnel and smokeless powder and part of a cardboard box. Green hobby fuse is next to a Walmart bag and a balloon.”

Ty: yes

“you don’t see a red bag here”

Ty: no

“you said though that you saw a red bag”

Ty: that’s right

“you agree whatever this was didn’t detonate, it just made a poof noise or made no noise at all, just made some smoke”

Ty: yes

“you tried to make another one and it didn’t detonate or make much noise, it just smoked more”

Ty: yes

AUSA objects

Talking about shoot house now

“you don’t think the capitol of Michigan is one room, right?

Ty: no but there are rooms

“you don’t think Whitmers vacation home is one room do you?

Ty: no there are rooms in a house

“you shoot, then you retreat, then you shoot, then you retreat”

Ty: yes

“it’s a defensive training isn’t it?

Ty: it means you have been overrun and have retreated

“you see this man with a camera and taking pictures of Croft.

Ty: yes

“that’s not opsec, right?

Ty: no

“hes got a cameraman, hes not trying to hide it

Ty: yes

“you never saw a 37mm grenade launcher mounted or used?

Ty: yes

“you don’t know if it even worked

Ty: I know it looked fine

“you know you can buy one legally, right?

Ty: yes

“as of Cambria your plan whatever it was, was up in the air”

Ty: yes

“you told Kessler there was a time you watched some videos from the FBI, didn’t know it was from the FBI, like a marketing video for explosives and showing what they could do”

Ty: yes

When did this happen

Ty: Luthor

You said there as a convo that Croft and Fox would bring money, crofting bringing the bulk of the money. Dan was there, Robeson and Red – they all work for the FBI and they were all recording it. If this conversation happened, we should be able to hear it?

AUSA objects

Ty: it wasn’t worded exactly that way

Blanchard: oh, I see

“you don’t know if Robeson was a host of the meeting in Peebles?

Ty: I just know he was there

Blanchard showing prior testimony transcript

“you were asked March 24 about peebles meeting, it was hosted by Robeson correct”

Ty: correct

Your answer to that was yes

Ty: correct

After Peebles, there was a meeting on –

Judge asks for Morning break.

I was asking you about a mtg on July 23 of more “committed members,”

Ty: yes

“Croft wasn’t there was he?

Ty: no.

Blanchard showing a photo of Garbin’s property in Luthor. They are showing w tires built on his property.

Took about 4 days to set up.

“you built this right before Luthor FTX, so in August?

Ty: yes

“But you said the mission to kidnap the gov before election?

Ty: yes

You spent a lot of time building this, didn’t you

Ty: yes

You didn’t expect to have a life after the kidnapping, yet you were still building this?

Ty: correct

Blanchard asks about a flag he would have his friends sign. Croft never signed.

“purpose of shoot house in Luthor – to simulate a room or home whatever you could use it for”

Ty: yes

“that wasn’t supposed to represent a structure that existed somewhere, right?

Ty: correct

“the idea was when you got her out to the lake you would drop the motor

Ty: yes

“the purpose was to be a massive inconvenience to her

Ty: yes

“because you figured she would be picked up off the lake at some point

Ty: yes

“did you go from Luthor to grand Rapids and meet with a group of people in the parking lot?

Ty: yes

“so Croft wasn’t there at first he was getting food and then he came back so he missed part of the conversation”

Ty: correct

Blanchard asks about Garbin’s boat that had a non-working motor

“you testified that your job on the “recon” was to shine a flashlight if you saw the gov house”

Ty: yes

“you didn’t get out of the car?

Ty: yes

Video played from inside Higgins car while they are looking for gov home. That’s you in the backseat?

Ty: yes

“don’t see you ever flash a light in this video?

Ty: I think you do

“okay lets play the whole clip”

“did you see yourself shining a flashlight in this clip?

Ty: no

“I understand before you got there you rallied and met at super 8 motel. You got in truck w Mr. Higgins and drove up to Cadillac w UCE Mark. Then you all drove up to Elk Rapids

Ty: correct

Then after you all got into the vehicles then you went off

“so the video of the bomb video of vehicle blowing up (made by FBI) you watched that one time?

Ty: yes

“you testified yesterday Mr. Croft was present for that?

Ty: yes

“you testified in March about that.”

Blanchard brings up Garbin’s March testimony transcript.

“you were asked about video who was w you when watching”

You said that “you didn’t know if Barry Croft was present, correct?”

Ty: correct.

“you testified yesterday Croft talked about running SS details of the road.”

Ty: yes

“after this second mtg in parking lot the vehicles all headed back south. Some went to your property In Luthor at least one didn’t.

Ty: correct

“Mr. Croft didn’t go back to your property

TY: correct

“so if someone said he was at your property that night they would be wrong?

Ty: yes

This device that went off – you didn’t see it?

Ty: yes

“you saw blue and green like a firework and some smoke

Ty: yes

“you didn’t see it get built?

Ty: no

Blanchard brings up chat from Prema FAFO group

You don’t see Croft in there do you?

Ty: no

“because he wasn’t part of that group, right?

Ty: he’s not

You went to 2A rally on June 18 at Capitol, Croft didn’t go to that?

Ty: right

And he wasn’t at the meeting at vac shack after that?

Ty: right

FTX in Fowlerville, Croft wasn’t invited to that either right?

Ty: no

FTX in munith on August 9, training there, Croft didn’t engage in training right because he wasn’t there

Ty: right

You had another mtg to discuss opsec you didn’t invite Croft?

Ty: no

“you were in a number of encrypted chats. Started on Wire, drifted to prema”

Ty: yes

You never had a wire conversation w him?

Ty: no

“you didn’t facetime him?

Ty: no

On October 7 you were in truck on way to Yipsilante you were told you would get some free gear, correct?

Ty: yes

“then after that you believed you were going to get hot wings and get beer

Ty: correct

“you didn’t intend to purchase or even see a bomb that day, right?

Ty: right

“croft wasn’t invited on this was he?

Ty: no

Next Witness Special Agent Katherine Martinez

Special Agent w FBI assigned to Baltimore field office

Then Wilmington, DE. She normally does white-collar stuff.

Was asked to do search of tractor trailor in New Jersey – being operated by Barry Croft.

Staging at York, Delaware. Informed truck was at a WAWA. She drove out to location, cops were there and FBI task force agents. They began searching truck and taking photographs.

Claims they took photos before removing things from truck.

“backpack we found in tractor trailor”

There was a living area in cab of truck

Curved knife under drivers seat and boots.

Glock 9mm firearm. Unloaded on seat.

She says it was “fully loaded.”

Camping gear found.

“can you tell about a go-bag”

She says it can be for many things, like camping or if you have to go some place in a hurry

Camo bandana’s and tri-corner hat.

Blanchard now:

Croft gave consent for them to search the vehicle. They didn’t have to get a warrant.

There is camping gear in the backpack, lifestraw so something you can use to drink dirty water from a lake

Martinez: correct

“this is all legal stuff, right?

Martinez: yes

“you found marijuana, right and tools to smoke it, like a pipe and grinder?”

Martinez: yes.

“you talked about the glock, its legal to own, right?

Martinez: yes

“you carry a glock, right?”

Martinez: correct.

Next Witness: FBI Special Agent Brian Clark

Worked for FBI 19 years.

Involvement in a search warrant in 2020 of the Vac Shack.

“did you find umm, the ability for someone to stay at the vac shack?

Clark: yes

Clark describes the shack, which didn’t have running water. Basement had parts and there was bed sectioned off w curtains.

Gov. showing exhibits, photos

“where did the FBI find that pistol?”

Clark: on floor.

“ex. 368, marked for exhibit as a rifle”

Clark: Palmetto Rifle.

“where found?”

Clark: leaning up against a wall

5.56 caliber rifle, had loaded magazine no cartridge in the chamber.

Hawaiian shirt found in duffle bag in basement by the bed.

Exhibit 371 photo – what do we see?

We see plate carrier and med kit, helmet, and box w U.S. currency, and then smoke canisters.

“what do we see here?”

Clark: Kevlar helmet to protect your head from getting injured.

Exhibit 375

“what is that?”

Clark” $600 currency found in gun box on shelf

“what are smoke canisters?”

Clark: small canisters when activated they will create smoke.

Exhibit 374

What do we see?

Clark: vest w plate carrier

“what can be used?

Clark” you can put plates in it

“could that be called body armor?

Clark: yes

Exhibit 372 – photo of body armor

Clark: we see rifle mags in the pouch of plate carrier

“where they loaded?

Clark: not fully but yes.

Exhibit 378 – tactical belt

“can you put smoke canister there?

Clark: yeah

Exhibit 379 – backpack found on shelf

What did you find in there?

Clark: knife, first aid kit, red light flashlight, 5500 cord zipties.

“knives, MREs, water, etc.”

Exhibit 379, going back to it…

What did you see in top of backpack?

Clark” 550 cord and zipties

What is that cord?

Clark: just rope basically.

Ex. 385 – partial contents of bag laid out for pic.

Ex. 386 – more contents of backpack

Clark: 2 sets of flexcuffs and water blatter. Used to hold water, save water and drink it later.

Knife, pack of zipties, red first aid kit, gas mask,

“did you also find a compass?”

Clark: yes just below items in this pic.

Pyro putty found – fire starter for campfires.

Binoculars w duct tape and an earpiece. 3 sets of actical gloves. Cans of tuna. A poncho. US flag neck gator.

Ex. 387

Clark: the Hawaiian shirt found in basement.

Ex. 376

Clark: items found on work bench.

8 pieces of paper w notes, laptop computer, USB devices, 3 knives, Taurus pistols w mag and holster, shirts.

Prosecutor asks about notes

Gibbons cross now:

“you were at building conducting search on Oct 7, 2020”

Clark: yes.

Amongst things you located was a business card, can you retrieve it?

Clark: yes.

Move for admission of biz card.

Mark as 1038

“this is image on card”

Clark: correct.

Located in container that holds biz cards

Clark: yes.

That is patriot 3 percent militia – read on card.

Pic of adam fox on card.

“were cash located?

Clark: on shelf located in gun box on 2nd shelf from top near vest.

“there was a laptop did that belong to Fox?

Clark: I don’t know who it belongs to

Playing video – Ex. 1165 – vid of vac shack

Questions about condition of vac shack

“that looks like area you seized most of this material from?”

Clark: yes that is the area

“that’s Adam’s things there?

Clark: correct

“where you in building when this was taken?

Clark: that’s a scan of it

“Basement had all this stuff down there?

Clark: correct

Next Witness: Kaleb Franks who took Plea Deal.

Franks 28, currently in jail. Lived in Waterford, Mich. Was a recovery coach at inpatient rehab. Was once an addict himself then went through program to be a drug counselor. Run groups, one on one sessions.

“Did you plead guilty to conspiring to kidnap Gov. Whitmer”

Franks: yes.

“when you were first interviewed you denied this, why did you do that?:

Franks: I was scared.

“you were facing life in prison. You took plea deal”

AUSA Kessler now talking about plea deal and expectations of reduced time trying to take wind out of defense argument about the witnesses motivation.

“why did you conspire to kidnap gov of Michigan?:

Franks: I was hoping I would get killed in process

“can you tell us why?”

Franks: lost family members, struggling financially.

“who did you conspire with?”

Franks: Adam Fox, Ty Garbin and Barry Croft.

“you will be asked about Caserta and Harris did you conspire with them too?

Franks: yes.

“what is a boogaloo to you?:

Franks: referencing a civil war between government and people

“were you interested in bringing that about?”

Franks: yeah

How did you join group?

Franks: Daniel Harris

Met at BLM protest, talked about firearms training

Download app on phone, go through vetting

“June 28, 2020 did you attend FTX w WW? Where was that?”

Franks: yes, Home of Morrison and Muscio.

“Was Fox there?”

Franks: yes. He was new there.

Shook his hand.

Saw him next at Cambria, Wisc.

“did he talk about ideas?

Franks: yes, storming capitol

“who was proposing ideas? Dan Chappel?

Franks: no. Adam Fox.

“Did you meet Barry Croft at this mtg?

Franks: yes.

He showed me an AR-15 rifle

“was there anything special about it?

Franks: it had a homemade silencer on it

“did you notice any tattoos on him?

Franks: he had a 3 on his hand, took that to mean part of 3 percenters

“Training exercise – purpose?

Franks: clearing house

Mtg in Peebles Oh. – mtg of multiple states discussing ideas

“what kind of ideas”

Franks: ideas of action. Placing explosives at police posts, blowing up cars, Adam Fox brought up storming capitol.

“did Croft bring up ideas?

Franks: blowing up police.

“where other ideas proposed later?

Franks: yes.

Did Fox join chat group w you and Garbin and other WW?

Franks: yes

Ex. 145 – chat

“did you participate in this?

Franks: yes

It says “red hot” who is that?

Franks: that’s me.

“you said even if we plan its highly likely we will be isolated due to being identified or taken out of the mission. Even If we covered faces we will be found in a day or 2.”

Franks: talking about kidnapping, worried about cameras.

Fox says “this is why we organize the puzzle, tear it apart then put it back together”

Franks: he was referring to making a plan.

“who is beaker?”

Franks: Dan Harris

“lets go to late aug 2020 where you invited to go on a recon mission, who invited you?

Franks: adam fox

“did you go?

Franks: no. I was busy

Sept 11-13 FTX training in Luthor at Garbin’s property

Franks helped set up property there

“where there a lot of people who attended?

Franks: yes

“not everyone knew about plot that were there?:

Franks: correct.

“can you tell us what an RF detector is?

Franks: scans or listening devices

“what did you understand shoot house to be this time?

Franks: preparation for kidnapping

“so the night of sept 12 are you invited to go on recon?

Franks: yes

“who invited you?

Franks: I don’t recall

“who seemed to be giving directions

Franks: someone over radio

“do you remember talking to adam fox though?

Gibbons objects to leading

“what did you talk about?:

Franks: address

“did you give it or him?:

Franks: we had wrong address

“lets go back to Luthor did you change clothes?

Franks: yes.

“did Fox tell you to change clothes?"

Franks: yes he said we should be able to blend in if we got pulled over or something

“what did you bring w you any weapons?

Franks: yeah my handgun

“who was w you when you left Luthor?

Franks: Garbin, Chappel, UCE Red.

“did you talk w croft before leaving hotel?

Franks: was talking to him about something unrelated. He asked if I knew where I was going he said he was getting eyes on bridge.

“where did you go next?

Franks: wallmart.

“did people change vehicles there?

Franks: people got out huddled up

“When you got in truck who w you?:

Franks: Garbin and Higgins.

Ex. 235 for ID

“This accurate representation of the place”

Franks: yes it is

Pic taken from gas station

All 3 trucks gather up there again?

Franks: yes

“given instructions?”

Franks: yes

“who gave them to you?:

Franks: I don’t recall

“what told to do?:

Franks: shine light so person across the lake could see it

“did all 3 trucks eventually leave?”

Franks: yes.

“did you understand where you were going?:

Franks: governors house

“where you able to find it”

Franks: no.

“did you do what you were supposed to do though?

Franks: shined lights.

“you talked to Mr. Fox, right?:

Franks: I relayed msg to him

Objection hearsay

Franks: I told him I was upset bc we got wrong address, seemed like waste of time.

“what do you recall?:

Franks: seeing pics of same house we were supposed to find

Another objection

“how many times did you drive up and down street?

Franks: 3 or 4

“you mentioned earlier about shining a light?

Franks: yes

Franks: even though we couldn’t find house we still shined a light

Sept 13th, did you meet w anyone at Luthor?

Franks: yes, myself, Fox, Garbin, Croft, Robeson, Mull Bros, Higgins maybe others

“what was discussed”

Franks: we needed to continue to train for mission

“what did he say about explosives?

Franks: that we needed to bring money

Franks: we were discussing taking the launcher for his gun, taking smoke device off it and putting something else on it.

“you remember hearing Croft?”

Franks: yes

Ex. 253 – audio – hard to hear

“did croft talk to you about what he wanted to use this on?

Franks: security detail of the governor.

“did you have any concerns about what would happen after?:

Franks: concern about cameras, our faces being out there

Audio played – hard to hear.

“what did you mean when you asked about your regular lives”

Franks: what would happen after

Garbin offered staying out at his place after.

*there is talk about explosive detonated in tree near human silhouettes*

“you are arrested in Ypsilanti?”

Franks: yes.

“do you remember your home was searched, items taken from home?

Franks: yes

Ex. Shown of photo of magazines, silencer, rifle

“what was the purpose of magazines?

Franks: training

“did you need them for the kidnapping?:

Franks: yes.

Do you see a Hawaiian shirt?

Franks: yes

“what was the meaning of that?

Franks: boogaloo movement

“why do you need medical supplies”

Franks: for injuries.

“how did you understand your role?:

Franks: I was going to be a shooter or an operator

“how about Garbin?”

Franks: the same

“who was providing most of the ideas here?

Franks: Mr. Fox

“let me ask you about entrapment because that’s something that will come up”

“did the FBI or their informants come up with this plan?

Franks: no it was Adam Fox

“did they express reluctance?:

Franks: no

“did you hear informants pressure them?:

Franks: no

Gibbons on Cross now:

“you went to BLM rally and joined ww”

Franks: yes.

Pic shown of Franks at BLM rally

“when you met with officers when you are arrested, you said you lied to them”

Franks: at that time yes

“so you have no problem lying when it suits you”

Franks: at that time

“You said you thought Dan Chappel pushed Adam Fox into doing things”

Franks: yes

“you didn’t lose any family members in 2019 right”

Franks: correct.

“its your testimony despite working in mental health you wanted to die”

Franks: yes

“you testified Big Dan didn’t entrap people”

“Dan Chappel contacted you almost daily to the point it became a problem w your family”

“Dan offered you credit cards”

“Dan sat and talked about incendiary topics for hours”

“He didn’t hand you paper and ask you to draw a map did he?”

“he didn’t you to post pictures in the FAFO group did he?

AUSA objects

“Big Dan took you to Ypsilanti to get arrested, didn’t he?

Franks: yes

“Adam Fox was not in the watchman chats, right”

Franks: no

“he was not in Brick Squad chat right”

Franks: no

“you were though?

Franks: yes

“you told investigators you didn’t like Adam Fox, true?

Franks: true

“you avoided him, didn’t you?

Franks: yes.

“you went on a hike w Harris and Garbin”

Franks: yes

“did you agree to join the plan?

AUSA objects

“you agreed to join conspiracy”

Franks: yes

“Fox wasn’t there was he?

Franks: no

“he didn’t even know about it did he?

Franks: correct

“you never met Higgins before the recon”

Franks: no

“Ride up north on Sat night that would be for ppl in the conspiracy, right”

Franks: right

“higgins wasn’t in Watchman group?

Franks: right

“He wasn’t in Michigan 3 percent

Franks: I don’t think so

“you don’t know much about him right, Steve Robeson brought him right

Franks: right

“Robeson is a FBI Informant

Franks” correct

“you’re supposed to be an operator on this dangerous plot and your not concerned that a new person is brought in that you never met?

Franks: no

“who came up with the plan and talked about it to you?

Franks: Adam Fox he talked about it over and over

Gibbons asks to bring transcript up

“this is a recording you recall this?

Franks: yes

“this is you expressing concern about plan that it wont work at all right?

Franks: silence – then says I don’t think I said it wouldn’t work

“if you were arrested it would be futile, you brought up boston bombers”

Franks: yes

“you claimed you wanted to kill yourself”

Franks: yes

“you could have just shot yourself, you own a pistol, you could have gone into a police station and wave a gun around correct?

Franks: yes

“do you even know what the plan was?”

Franks: I wasn’t part of the leadership

“isn’t it true you didn’t really want to kill yourself

Franks: that is not true

“you claimed you want to tell the truth and be honest now”

Franks: yes

“while in prison you broke rules and took suboxone

Franks: correct

“you aren’t supposed to have this in jail it’s a narcotic but you broke the rules and did it anyway right?

Franks: correct

“how many boats involved in plan you agreed to participate in?

Franks: only thing I heard about was Tys boat

“So one boat?

Franks: someone else said something about another boat maybe

“did you know why you were going to beach?

Franks: no

“did any of your training involve operating a boat?

Franks: no

“you testified about RF detector did it go off?

Franks: no

“you testified at Cambria about Fox talking about storming captiol

Franks: yes

“that’s different than kidnaping the gov at her home isn’t it?

Franks: yes

“ do you think its helpful to the government if you tell them about kidnap plan”

Objection

“Do you know what a LARPER is?

Franks: yes

“when you were arrested you told feds you thought Fox was mostly a larper right?

Franks: yes

Gibbons exposed his contradiction about covering his face in photo because he didn’t want to get caught but he claimed he wanted to die.

“Do these people look like they could be extras in a military movie”

“im getting to LARPing”

“you were a shirt and tie as a counselor then you show up to these mtgs once a month wearing camo and boots”

Franks: no

“did any of the guys besides Fox”

Franks: no

“you’re here because the government has offered you a deal”

Franks: yes

“there is no guarantee you will be reduced time”

Franks: no

“if you say things they don’t like you wont get the deal, if they don’t agree you have provide substantial assistance”

Franks: I am here to tell the truth

“your riding around w Higgins who you have never met. You talked about shining a light how did that happen”

Franks: Garbin had a light a shined it

“how did he do it?

Franks: outside the window

“how do you know he did it?

Franks: I heard him say it so I assume

“you never stopped the vehicle, you kept the wheels going”

Franks: yes

“that’s a road w a turnaround at the end. You go down one way and have to turn around to leave. If you make three passes you have to make four, turn arounds

Franks: yeah

“how do you go back down the road without going past gov house?”

Franks: I don’t know

“its not possible. You don’t even have the address rifght

Blanchard now on Cross

“you made a deal w gov they aren’t going to charge you w WMD and the ghost guns you were making for a felon?

Franks: yes

“you are expecting a deal and reduced sentence for cooperation?

Franks: I am here to tell the truth

“you know you have to testify consistent w gov story if youre going to get a reduced sentence

“you are pending sentencing, your lawyer is here watching how you are doing, right?

Franks: yes

“before you testified last time we learned you were using drugs in jail?

Franks: yes

“how did you get them?

Franks: things come in the mail

“there is an investigation, right?

Franks: yes

“you are hoping you wont be charged for that felony right?

Franks: yep

“you struck your deal just a month before trial last time. You got to see discovery – tons of it right

Franks: yes

“you joined WW during pandemic”

Franks: yes

“Croft wasn’t one of the member right?

Franks: right

“Croft was never at WW event or lead any training, right?

Franks: correct

“you didn’t meet him until July

Franks: yes

“you were at mtg where you got code name but Croft didn’t get them

Franks: no

“you testified you thought we was an operator today

Franks: yes

“when you were arrested your position was the guys were a bunch of larpers

Franks: yes

“Robeson was hosting an event – at his property – when event starte off there was a safety briefing given, Robeson gave that briefing

Franks: yes

“Croft was wearing a pirate hat, it was sort of his costume right?

Franks: I guess

“you talked about a launcher, but never saw anyone use it right

Franks: right

You attended another mtg in Peebles hosted by Robeson and he made the introductions, went over rules and called mtg to order

Franks: true

“you said plans were discussed like blowing up police cars

Franks: yes

“like parked cars?

Franks: I don’t know

“you didn’t get into the details of it?

Franks: no

Blanchard brings up wire chat

Croft isn’t on these chats, hes not in these groups. You didn’t talk to him on prema

Franks: no

“night trip at Luthor. You got into car w Higgins, he is associate of Robeson

Franks: yes

“you never met him before

Franks – right

“your testimony was you were going to commit a crime and you are brining a stranger?

Franks: yes

“stranger happens to have video recording device in his car”

Franks yes

“he told you that night he had one and was going to record you all committing a crime looking for gov house”

Franks – yes

“you said you were going to shine a light”

Franks – yes

“you said you were supposed to shine light when you found her house but you never found her house, how did you know when to shine the light

Franks – im confused

“did car stop when light was shined?

Franks – no

“what was he doing when he shined it

Franks – I don’t know

“your aware there is video then of this”

Franks – yes

“so we should be able to see this shining light on video? Right?

Franks: yes

“gov played clip of Croft talking about converting the launcher, you never did that with him and you don’t know if he did that

Franks: no

“there were a lot of informants up at Luthor, right?

Franks: I supposed

There was Red, Chappel, Plunk, Robeson

Franks: yes

“you’ve reviewed discovery and know most everything was captured

Franks: not most of it

“why did you talk about where you would live after the kidnapping if you were planning to die

Franks: to fit in w group

“you weren’t even planning on kidnapping her but getting shot by her detail

Franks: I couldn’t do that unless there was a plan

“you said Fox was giving directions over radio and this was being recorded so there should be evidence of that right?

AUSA objects

“we have seen some videos of shoot house in cambria and Luthor. People were taking videos of this. Not particulatly good opsec huh

Franks – no

“you haven’t seen a video of Fox going through shoot house, none of us have

Franks – no

Croft didn’t stay over night in Luthor did he?

Franks – I don’t believe so no

There was as July 23 mtg at Harris house

Franks – yes

Croft wasn’t there

Franks – correct

There was mtg in Fowlerville where Dan was giving training croft wasn’t there right

Franks – correct

Croft wasn’t invited on your hike when you said you agreed to conspire, and he didn’t know about it, you didn’t call him up after did you

Franks – correct

You never called him up you didn’t even have his phone number

Franks – correct

“you were in QRF chat, Boys, Bricks Squad and bonfire chats, croft was not right

Franks – correct

You didn’t know Croft personally right

Franks – yes

You just know him from national events

Franks – training

You formed the opinion croft was his own person correct

Franks – yes

“he was pushing a constitutional idea

AUSA objects

“you understand you are going to prison marked as a snitch right

Franks- yes

You don’t want to go to prison right

Franks – its going to happen

You want to do what is best for kaleb franks and get you the least amount of time

Franks – tell the truth

Then why didn’t you just do that when you got arrested?

Franks – I was in shock

How about November, December, or January?

Franks- idk

You waited months in fact you didn’t do that until you were in prison facing problems

Franks – mumbles

End for today